Ringling tweet

[Grey Stafford]

Hi Ms. Hennesy:

Read your tweets about Ringling and wanted to offer this alternative point of view while IN NO WAY, shape or form attempt to excuse them for their out of date (i.e., force based) training methods.

The Asian elephant is at serious risk of extinction in our lifetime.  Perhaps as few as 40k remain in the wild covering a tiny fraction of their original range.  Plus, recent data suggests humans have skewed the sex ratio, as a result of poaching for tusks, human-elephant conflicts, habitat loss due to human expansion, and to protect crops.  In addition, we've seen an explosion in the sale (legal and illegal) of ivory as the middle class in Asia expands.  (BTW, The past year was one of the worst on record for African elephant poaching.)

Given this sad state of declining elephant populations across the globe, it might be interesting to note that Ringling has one of the most successful breeding programs for Asian elephants in the world.

No doubt, boycotting the circus might one day end the display of elephants in circuses, but it would also end the funding (conservation takes money) for such breeding and conservation efforts.  Efforts that improve our knowledge and understanding of elephants, as well as their behavioral & biological needs, reproduction, and what it will take to prevent their extinction.   (Classic case of throwing baby out with the bath water?)

Unfortunately, there are no easy answers.  While I find their force-based (mixed with some reward) training repugnant, outdated, and unnecessary, one also cannot discount the elephant conservation contributions they have made.  A few years ago, I personally handed their top animal manager a copy of my reward-based training book and I know things have improved there over the past decade.  Instead of boycotting, perhaps your fans can concentrate their writing energy for Ringling to change their management system towards positive reinforcement-only training.  That way, everybody, especially the elephants (those wild and in human care) win.

[Carolyn Hennesy]

Had no idea there were alternative methods of training. Where can I and everyone else learn more and learn more about you? C

[Megan Stoker]

I had no idea that they were a leader in successful breeding programs....clearly poachers have done serious damage to the population, and I'm sad that one day when I have children, these animals will probably be extinct or pretty dang close to it.... however, personally, I'm not a fan of circuses/aquariums because I think that animals - especially of that size, should be in their natural habitats. In the wild. (I'd feel bad for my Goldfish if I didn't know they lived in a much larger environment in my pond than they would in a tank...I'm also a person that does everything to make sure they aren't eaten by predators such as a Blue Heron). Or for educational purposes, a large ranch where they could have considerably more space to spread out ....

Having said that though, if they can change their training methods to be kind, I could support them. But that's an "if."

What those pictures showed broke my heart. Bring on the alternative training!

Thanks for sharing the positive news that the Ringling Bros. are trying to help the Asian Elephant population.

Meg.

[Ruthann Conley]

So basically it sounds like although you disapprove of their methods it's basically okay because they have a great breeding program? So in the same sense it would be alright with you for an adult to beat his child if he contributed to a worthy children's charity? There is no difference. Any act of "charity or good will" does not negate or condone animal cruelty. If elephants become extinct it WON'T be because we took a stand and boycotted the circus, thus ending their breeding program, it will be because of human greed and violence and our indifference to it!

[Cathy]

Breeding programs or not, animals in my opinion, especially elephants, should not be used to entertain human beings. That is not their purpose earth. They are meant to be free roaming, not teatherd by chains nor trained with hooks that leave gashes behind their ears and on their legs.

In nature, they live in family groups and are very loving. They are smart. They grieve as humans do when one of their group dies. And yet they are only seen as a means to make a buck by some. Tragic.

When a circus elephant goes crazy at long last from separation and abuse and hurts humans,most often the elephant is put down. The elephant pays the price for trying to be free.

Zoos and rescue programs do a great job with breeding programs as well and not under harsh conditions where the animals are made to perform and are abused. In other words,

Anyone can google hidden footage from animal rights groups that show the abuse. It is real and it has to stop.

I urge everyone to avoid Ringling Bros and or any other circus that uses animal acts for entertainment. Rather, attend circ de Solei and these types of shows.

[Grey Stafford]

Thank you for this opportunity to share all the great things happening in the world of zoo and pet animal training. In no way would I excuse or gloss over punishment-based training whether it occurs in a circus or the pets in our home. Over the past 20 years, we have witnessed the start of a transformation in how we train all varieties of animals to engage in desirable behaviors—away from traditional, force and punishment based practices designed to correct mistakes to those designed to build on success with exclusive use of positive reinforcement. If I seem a bit passionate on the subject it is because I have seen it work with “clean slate” puppies to “old dogs” used to corrections or worse.

No one I know would rest on our laurels because we still have trainers (some quite commercially successful with books, TV shows etc.) advocating force, dominance etc. to correct behavior mistakes rather than focus our time and attention on the 23.5 hours a day most pets do exactly the sort of behaviors we want them to do (i.e., play nice, sleep, potty outside, remain quiet, get along, chew their own toys, not our shoes, watch GH, etc.)

Here’s some of the good news:
Today’s zookeeper is better educated than ever before. Most zoos and aquariums require 2 or 4-year degrees plus some work experience! There’s a great college program for zookeeping in your area at Moorpark.

There are many examples I can point your readers to but since we started the conversation with elephants… there are two outstanding, cutting edge elephant management programs in the U.S. and both offer us hope that elephant care and management is moving in the right direction:

Again, one is in your general area at the San Diego Wild Animal Park. They currently house a group of African elephants that were imported from Africa earlier this decade. These animals were naïve (i.e., wild) and might have been culled had they not been brought to the U.S. (Despite the dramatic decline in elephant numbers in the wild, there are places in Africa where there are simply too many elephants that can be supported by the local habitat. After all, they eat 300lbs of plant matter a day!)

The Wild Animal Park animals have since had several successful births. Each animal, adult or juvenile, has learned (with only positive reinforcement) an extensive array of VOLUNTARY husbandry behaviors like shifting, being weighed on scales, human contact, venipuncture, foot care, engaging in play with toys & trainers, and others. (Any researcher will tell you, there is no substitute for biological samples collected from animals that are calm and relaxed compared to samples collected from restrained or anesthetized animals.) The person in charge of the program is a former marine mammal trainer, (like yours truly), who has adapted the reinforcement-based training used for decades in that field to elephants.

The other program involves very mature (20-30+ year old) Asian elephants at Busch Gardens Tampa that have literally seen it all, as far as animal training, in their long lives. Several years ago, another former marine mammal trainer went there and completely revamped their training program to be only reinforcement-based. The guy is an old friend and one of the best. He and his team have retrained these endangered animals to learn how to be winners. In addition to all the complex and precise voluntary behaviors I listed above, these cows will also stand still for 15-25 minutes at a time for voluntary endoscopy used for artificial insemination—again, in an attempt to improve our knowledge, veterinary care, understanding and success of elephant reproduction. The future survival of Asian elephants may one day depend on our ability to assist with such reproduction techniques. It is simply amazing to see how these mature elephants have taken to a training system based only on reinforcement—they prove as I write in my book, ZOOmility: Keeper Tales of Training with Positive Reinforcement, that no animal is a lost cause. (We tried to make the comparison between zoo animal and pet training with only reinforcement when ZOOmility was featured on NBC’s Tonight Show last year (1/09).)

Some still will ask why we need zoos. Perhaps this sad figure will put things into perspective. Over the past 30 years or so, on average, 75-100 elephants A DAY have been killed at human hands worldwide. There is simply no large, untapped wild left. If our grandchildren are going to have wild elephants, we need to learn all we can today. Even those wild populations that do survive will be managed to at least some degree given the growth of human civilization.

Forgive me for going on and on. Despite what some might say, there are many things to be happy about with regard to the care and training of wild and domestic animals using positive reinforcement in the U.S. and elsewhere. There’s still plenty of work and heads that need to be turned, but with patience and success, one species at a time, we will get there!

Thanks for listening,

Grey Stafford, PhD
Author of ZOOmility (iReinforce.com, Amazon)

[Kim Gondeck]

Elephants are such elegant and smart creatures. It saddens me to see how they are being trained.
We all must make our voices heard and I am very happy the Carolyn has started this mission on her page. Now I am going to do some investigating, will post back later.
Thanks All
K

[Angela]

It's so weird this is the topic of discussion. I was just talking with, a couple of friends, last week about animals in circuses. I appreciate the information but I still have a problem with animals being in a circus. They should be allowed to live in their normal habitat. For that reason, I have not being to a circus in many years. Sorry

[Carolyn Hennesy]

And yet...still don't know how to get in touch with you. Unless, of course, you wish to remain mysterious. This is, obviously, touching a nerve with so many folks including myself. The notion of cruelty towards those who cannot speak for or defend themselves purely for our pleasure is abhorrent. But I must say, the idea of preserving these great creatures is timely and wonderful. Am thinking of broadening this topic and am seriously thinking of calling for a "standard" circus boycott until they can prove a shift in training techniques. Would love to discuss further: [e-mail] C

Grey Stafford said:

Thank you for this opportunity to share all the great things happening in the world of zoo and pet animal training. In no way would I excuse or gloss over punishment-based training whether it occurs in a circus or the pets in our home. Over the past 20 years, we have witnessed the start of a transformation in how we train all varieties of animals to engage in desirable behaviors—away from traditional, force and punishment based practices designed to correct mistakes to those designed to build on success with exclusive use of positive reinforcement. If I seem a bit passionate on the subject it is because I have seen it work with “clean slate” puppies to “old dogs” used to corrections or worse.
No one I know would rest on our laurels because we still have trainers (some quite commercially successful with books, TV shows etc.) advocating force, dominance etc. to correct behavior mistakes rather than focus our time and attention on the 23.5 hours a day most pets do exactly the sort of behaviors we want them to do (i.e., play nice, sleep, potty outside, remain quiet, get along, chew their own toys, not our shoes, watch GH, etc.)
Here’s some of the good news:
Today’s zookeeper is better educated than ever before. Most zoos and aquariums require 2 or 4-year degrees plus some work experience! There’s a great college program for zookeeping in your area at Moorpark.

There are many examples I can point your readers to but since we started the conversation with elephants… there are two outstanding, cutting edge elephant management programs in the U.S. and both offer us hope that elephant care and management is moving in the right direction:

Again, one is in your general area at the San Diego Wild Animal Park. They currently house a group of African elephants that were imported from Africa earlier this decade. These animals were naïve (i.e., wild) and might have been culled had they not been brought to the U.S. (Despite the dramatic decline in elephant numbers in the wild, there are places in Africa where there are simply too many elephants that can be supported by the local habitat. After all, they eat 300lbs of plant matter a day!)

The Wild Animal Park animals have since had several successful births. Each animal, adult or juvenile, has learned (with only positive reinforcement) an extensive array of VOLUNTARY husbandry behaviors like shifting, being weighed on scales, human contact, venipuncture, foot care, engaging in play with toys & trainers, and others. (Any researcher will tell you, there is no substitute for biological samples collected from animals that are calm and relaxed compared to samples collected from restrained or anesthetized animals.) The person in charge of the program is a former marine mammal trainer, (like yours truly), who has adapted the reinforcement-based training used for decades in that field to elephants.

The other program involves very mature (20-30+ year old) Asian elephants at Busch Gardens Tampa that have literally seen it all, as far as animal training, in their long lives. Several years ago, another former marine mammal trainer went there and completely revamped their training program to be only reinforcement-based. The guy is an old friend and one of the best. He and his team have retrained these endangered animals to learn how to be winners. In addition to all the complex and precise voluntary behaviors I listed above, these cows will also stand still for 15-25 minutes at a time for voluntary endoscopy used for artificial insemination—again, in an attempt to improve our knowledge, veterinary care, understanding and success of elephant reproduction. The future survival of Asian elephants may one day depend on our ability to assist with such reproduction techniques. It is simply amazing to see how these mature elephants have taken to a training system based only on reinforcement—they prove as I write in my book, ZOOmility: Keeper Tales of Training with Positive Reinforcement, that no animal is a lost cause. (We tried to make the comparison between zoo animal and pet training with only reinforcement when ZOOmility was featured on NBC’s Tonight Show last year (1/09).)

Some still will ask why we need zoos. Perhaps this sad figure will put things into perspective. Over the past 30 years or so, on average, 75-100 elephants A DAY have been killed at human hands worldwide. There is simply no large, untapped wild left. If our grandchildren are going to have wild elephants, we need to learn all we can today. Even those wild populations that do survive will be managed to at least some degree given the growth of human civilization.

Forgive me for going on and on. Despite what some might say, there are many things to be happy about with regard to the care and training of wild and domestic animals using positive reinforcement in the U.S. and elsewhere. There’s still plenty of work and heads that need to be turned, but with patience and success, one species at a time, we will get there!

Thanks for listening,

Grey Stafford, PhD
Author of ZOOmility (iReinforce.com, Amazon)

[Megan Stoker]

Grey, I agree with you on the fact that there are positive things that can be attributed to training under the correct circumstances (no harm) ....my concern at the moment is with how they are currently be treated in the training program that the Ringling Bros. have... in a lot of those pictures, those elephants, in my opinion, looked broken. Like they'd given up. They are fighting their natural urges, which can turn deadly (as Cathy pointed out).

Circuses, Aquariums and Rodeo's have made me sad since I was a child. When I was far too young to understand that it was a business, I could already see that people viewed it as entertainment. And it baffled me then, as it does now.

I'm more of a person who'd rather go to a zoo which has room for the animals to roam a fair distance and revel in their beauty when they do something that comes naturally...or go to Africa and see them in their true natural habitat.

As far as your statement about " these cows will also stand still for 15-25 minutes at a time for voluntary endoscopy used for artificial insemination" .... I grew up on a farm. I have seen large animals that could do some serious damage if they feel they are not in a safe situation artificially inseminated and in the birthing process....we never trained any of our animals (cows, horses, whatever) - and they all behaved well - because they were treated well. We fed them a balanced diet, they had room to roam, all were super friendly (we even had a Bull that became a part of the family much like our dogs and cats).... at the end of the day, if these animals trust you, not fear you, the transition from wild/naive animal to tamed (and "house broken" for a lack of better words) would be smoother, in my opinion.

I understand that you don't condone the mistreatment of animals. But at this particular point, this is where my focus on the Ringling Bros. is at.... how they mistreat the animals that they take and put on display to make a few dollars....

[Grey Stafford]

Thanks Megan. I appreciate your thoughts. Again, I am not saying the world is a perfect place. I do not condone the practices at Ringling which draw their roots from hundreds/thousands of years of forced based training. . But I know there are amazing people out there teaching animals of all kinds, large and small, including elephants in some facilities through ONLY positive reinforcement. I've spent 20 years trying to convince pet owners to stop listening to the whisperer's of the world and to simply reward success. It is about co-operation, not coercion.

As for AI in elephant cows, it is a very large and long uterine tract as you might expect, so a little conditioning teaches them to be relaxed, enjoy some treats and brushing while the scope is passed 8-10 feet! It also help protect a fragile and expensive endoscope.

I

Megan Stoker said:

Grey, I agree with you on the fact that there are positive things that can be attributed to training under the correct circumstances (no harm) ....my concern at the moment is with how they are currently be treated in the training program that the Ringling Bros. have... in a lot of those pictures, those elephants, in my opinion, looked broken. Like they'd given up. They are fighting their natural urges, which can turn deadly (as Cathy pointed out).

Circuses, Aquariums and Rodeo's have made me sad since I was a child. When I was far too young to understand that it was a business, I could already see that people viewed it as entertainment. And it baffled me then, as it does now.

I'm more of a person who'd rather go to a zoo which has room for the animals to roam a fair distance and revel in their beauty when they do something that comes naturally...or go to Africa and see them in their true natural habitat.

As far as your statement about " these cows will also stand still for 15-25 minutes at a time for voluntary endoscopy used for artificial insemination" .... I grew up on a farm. I have seen large animals that could do some serious damage if they feel they are not in a safe situation artificially inseminated and in the birthing process....we never trained any of our animals (cows, horses, whatever) - and they all behaved well - because they were treated well. We fed them a balanced diet, they had room to roam, all were super friendly (we even had a Bull that became a part of the family much like our dogs and cats).... at the end of the day, if these animals trust you, not fear you, the transition from wild/naive animal to tamed (and "house broken" for a lack of better words) would be smoother, in my opinion.

I understand that you don't condone the mistreatment of animals. But at this particular point, this is where my focus on the Ringling Bros. is at.... how they mistreat the animals that they take and put on display to make a few dollars....

[anneminnery]

http://www.ireinforce.com/contact.shtml - Mr. Grey has quite interesting credentials, as seen on http://www.ireinforce.com

Carolyn Hennesy said:

And yet...still don't know how to get in touch with you. Unless, of course, you wish to remain mysterious. This is, obviously, touching a nerve with so many folks including myself. The notion of cruelty towards those who cannot speak for or defend themselves purely for our pleasure is abhorrent. But I must say, the idea of preserving these great creatures is timely and wonderful. Am thinking of broadening this topic and am seriously thinking of calling for a "standard" circus boycott until they can prove a shift in training techniques. Would love to discuss further: [e-mail] C

Grey Stafford said:

Thank you for this opportunity to share all the great things happening in the world of zoo and pet animal training. In no way would I excuse or gloss over punishment-based training whether it occurs in a circus or the pets in our home. Over the past 20 years, we have witnessed the start of a transformation in how we train all varieties of animals to engage in desirable behaviors—away from traditional, force and punishment based practices designed to correct mistakes to those designed to build on success with exclusive use of positive reinforcement. If I seem a bit passionate on the subject it is because I have seen it work with “clean slate” puppies to “old dogs” used to corrections or worse.
No one I know would rest on our laurels because we still have trainers (some quite commercially successful with books, TV shows etc.) advocating force, dominance etc. to correct behavior mistakes rather than focus our time and attention on the 23.5 hours a day most pets do exactly the sort of behaviors we want them to do (i.e., play nice, sleep, potty outside, remain quiet, get along, chew their own toys, not our shoes, watch GH, etc.)
Here’s some of the good news:
Today’s zookeeper is better educated than ever before. Most zoos and aquariums require 2 or 4-year degrees plus some work experience! There’s a great college program for zookeeping in your area at Moorpark.

There are many examples I can point your readers to but since we started the conversation with elephants… there are two outstanding, cutting edge elephant management programs in the U.S. and both offer us hope that elephant care and management is moving in the right direction:

Again, one is in your general area at the San Diego Wild Animal Park. They currently house a group of African elephants that were imported from Africa earlier this decade. These animals were naïve (i.e., wild) and might have been culled had they not been brought to the U.S. (Despite the dramatic decline in elephant numbers in the wild, there are places in Africa where there are simply too many elephants that can be supported by the local habitat. After all, they eat 300lbs of plant matter a day!)

The Wild Animal Park animals have since had several successful births. Each animal, adult or juvenile, has learned (with only positive reinforcement) an extensive array of VOLUNTARY husbandry behaviors like shifting, being weighed on scales, human contact, venipuncture, foot care, engaging in play with toys & trainers, and others. (Any researcher will tell you, there is no substitute for biological samples collected from animals that are calm and relaxed compared to samples collected from restrained or anesthetized animals.) The person in charge of the program is a former marine mammal trainer, (like yours truly), who has adapted the reinforcement-based training used for decades in that field to elephants.

The other program involves very mature (20-30+ year old) Asian elephants at Busch Gardens Tampa that have literally seen it all, as far as animal training, in their long lives. Several years ago, another former marine mammal trainer went there and completely revamped their training program to be only reinforcement-based. The guy is an old friend and one of the best. He and his team have retrained these endangered animals to learn how to be winners. In addition to all the complex and precise voluntary behaviors I listed above, these cows will also stand still for 15-25 minutes at a time for voluntary endoscopy used for artificial insemination—again, in an attempt to improve our knowledge, veterinary care, understanding and success of elephant reproduction. The future survival of Asian elephants may one day depend on our ability to assist with such reproduction techniques. It is simply amazing to see how these mature elephants have taken to a training system based only on reinforcement—they prove as I write in my book, ZOOmility: Keeper Tales of Training with Positive Reinforcement, that no animal is a lost cause. (We tried to make the comparison between zoo animal and pet training with only reinforcement when ZOOmility was featured on NBC’s Tonight Show last year (1/09).)

Some still will ask why we need zoos. Perhaps this sad figure will put things into perspective. Over the past 30 years or so, on average, 75-100 elephants A DAY have been killed at human hands worldwide. There is simply no large, untapped wild left. If our grandchildren are going to have wild elephants, we need to learn all we can today. Even those wild populations that do survive will be managed to at least some degree given the growth of human civilization.

Forgive me for going on and on. Despite what some might say, there are many things to be happy about with regard to the care and training of wild and domestic animals using positive reinforcement in the U.S. and elsewhere. There’s still plenty of work and heads that need to be turned, but with patience and success, one species at a time, we will get there!

Thanks for listening,

Grey Stafford, PhD
Author of ZOOmility (iReinforce.com, Amazon)

[Megan Stoker]

I'm thrilled that there are people out there that only use positive reinforcement for training animals, large and small. I hope that the Ringling Bros will follow their lead. When I sent my email off to them, I was severely pissed off and told them that they need to be fined massive amounts of money, and investigated for animal abuse. I also posed the question of how would they feel if they were treated that way, which is definitely not a fun thought! (I also had some other choice words). Animal abuse is one of the things that pisses me off most in the world....these poor defenseless creatures can't speak for themselves. And when they try to communicate and rebel against what is happening, it can be downright serious (just this past weekend, at a rodeo here in BC, a rider was fatally injured....granted the owners/riders specifically know it's a dangerous sport - but again, these animals weren't put on this earth for entertainment purposes....but I digress).

Though I'm not a fan of circuses, and I personally haven't been to one in a long time and have no intention of going back, I have nothing bad to say about any other Circus companies. This is mainly due to the fact that I am unaware of their training programs and how they treat their animals in general. If I ever heard of something that would cause the animals to possibly be distressed, then I'd be lobbying against them as well.

I've told my friends and family about how these people have treated these elephants in hopes that they will not support them until things change.